It was an honor being able to interview a living hero of our history, our own Dr. Franklin Kameny, the father of modern gay rights.  There are only a small handful, nearly forgotten by those who came later, who began to demand gay rights in 1959 and never stopped to this day. From the day he was sacked from his government astronomer position due to homosexuality in 1957, Dr. Franklin Kameny has never ceased championing gay rights over the decades. If you were to plan to google his name, it would be advisable to stock provisions first, as you would be glued to your computer for a very long time.

Yet when I telephoned Dr. Kameny and asked about his own military experience, he began by saying the same words that nearly every single gay veteran whom I have interviewed responds with: "Well, there's not much to tell; my service was quite ordinary." Indeed, and that is just the point.

This is the story of an ordinary soldier, as much as if one were to have been able to ask Moses, "tell me about the days when you were merely a slave."

It would take several volumes to recount all that Dr. Kameny has done in his lifetime, with the final volume yet to come. Just to remind readers, Dr. Kameny did not stop at his early marches in suit and tie in the late 50s and early 60s and the founding of the Washington DC Mattachine. He was also active in the 70s with youngsters, at that time, in forming the far more aggressive actions of the Gay Activist Alliance. And it was Dr Kameny whom Leonard Matlovich first anxiously telephoned when he heard that he was looking for a perfect test case of a sterling service member who was gay (according to the account in Conduct Unbecoming, by Randy Shilts). Much has been written about Dr. Franklin Kameny's lifelong contribution to the battle for our rights. Yet, it was a rare treat to hear, from his own lips, the tales of his time as a member of the Greatest Generation, as an ordinary soldier in mortal combat in World War II. It was a delight to interview him; I'd begin to ask half a question and he would launch into the stories related below.

Gay Military Signal: How did you enter the military?

Franklin Kameny: I enlisted in the Army three days before my 18th birthday in May of 1943. I would have been drafted, at that time. However, my background is in science, physics, and astronomy; and the army had a program called ASTP (Army Specialized Training Program) for people with particular skills and education. To get into the program you had to enlist. It seemed like a good deal, so I did it. I entered Ft. Benning, and after basic training I was sent to the University of Illinois. I was in the Sigma Chi fraternity house living in style for a few months. Then Congress canceled the whole program. The Army, in turn, ended its program of training me to become an engineer, And suddenly, I was in tent in a sodden field in Louisiana. I was in the 8th Armored Division at Camp Polk, in an 81mm mortar platoon, the 58th Armored Infantry Battalion in which I remained to end of war in Europe. When they finally got us back home, I was discharged on March 24th, 1946. I have the discharge certificate here.

GMS: Where did you serve?

Franklin Kameny: We were shipped across to Europe, in 1944, on what had been the White Star liner SS Samaria, which became a troop ship. My mother was able to see me off at the docks, because at that time she worked for the Red Cross there. We had a vast room full of hammocks. The ship zig-zagged for three weeks across the ocean to avoid depth charges. In England we were in Tidworth Barracks, near Stonehenge in Wiltshire County, a few miles from there, in south central England. We were there for Thanksgiving and over Christmas. And then there was the Battle of the Bulge. At New Years we crossed the Channel and landed in France, in Normandy where we stayed for a week. We were an armored division; we had half track vehicles. We crossed into eastern France, to a tiny deserted village, Eply, in Alsace-Lorraine, and were there for the whole month of January, freezing to death. (The movements of the 8th Armored Div., during this period, can be followed via its monthly reports which may be seen at http://www.8th-armored.org/aar/ccr_jan.htm) There had been fighting, we found German bodies all over. Meanwhile, the bulge was debulged; so after January, we moved north into Holland. If you look at a map of Holland, you will see, right along German border, there is an appendix called Limburg. We were in Cadier En Keer, between Aachen and Maastricht, staying with civilians. We moved north with the 9th Army (at that time there were the 1st, 3rd, 7th and 9th Armies in Europe). The Americans, Canadians and British in the North were moving into Germany. The British and Canadians were moving farther north. than we were. With the 9th, we moved into Roermond at the German border where the Ruhr runs into the Rhine. And there we first had combat. We rolled into main square of Roermond, where there was a huge pile of furniture on which the British had written, in blue chalk: "the enemy is 500 feet ahead." There was lots of shooting. Then we move eastward into the Rhineland. For much of February, we were in Grefrath. At that point we had no way of crossing Rhine until the Remagen Bridge was secured. Once we got that bridge, our troops moved over and fanned up and down into Germany, for the first time in the north. We secured the east side of the Rhine. I remember, we crossed the Rhine late at night with hails of antiaircraft artillery flying across the sky in brilliant colors. We fought hard and got into Ruhr Pocket, it was not pleasant. And eventually we closed the Ruhr Pocket and went east into the Hartz area. By May we were in mid-Germany.

We settled down in a town, which later became part of the Russian segment, called Duderstadt, whose history dated back a thousand years. Back in high school and college, I had studied Latin and German although I never became fluent; but, beginning at Duderstadt for the rest of my time in Europe, I informally became my company's interpreter with German civilians. The town still had its medieval moat and wall and two churches one with a tall steeple in a spiral. We spent all of May in Duderstadt. At the beginning of that time, after Roosevelt died and Hitler committed suicide on May 8th, war came to formal end in Europe. So, we settled down in Duderstadt during May.

On June 1st, they moved us into Czechoslovakia, to Bohemia as an army of liberation (in June, July and August). First we were in Klatovy, a small city in western Bohemia. And then, later on, we moved into a tiny village near Pilsen name Štěnovice. They put us up with civilian homes, and I corresponded with those I stayed with for several years after.

When we got there, the war was still raging in Pacific, so they were organizing to move troops over there, via Italy and Suez, into the Pacific Theater. We had no expectation of getting home any time soon. But then, Hiroshima was bombed in August and everything changed; the war ended.

At that point, they had all those troops spread out across Europe. Transportation was not what it is today; there were a million troops trying to get home. And so while we waited for our turn to come, I ended in the 4th armored division in Landsthul, and later at Regensburg on the Danube, doing clerical work. Eventually they set up two universities for the troops; and I was assigned to Shrivenham, near Bristol in southwestern England. I was there for two months or so and then was reassigned to Regensburg. During that time we got weekends off and I went to England and Scotland. I traveled all over England, to Edinburgh, York, Oxford, Cambridge, Wales, -you name it- I got to it on weekends.

Carrying Coals to Newcastle:

Also at that time, I became the only person you will ever meet who literally "carried coals to Newcastle." Way up in northern England, on one trip, I went to York. I knew I would be going through Newcastle and I was well aware of the saying, "Carrying Coals to Newcastle." So I got a few lumps of coal from a train station coal bin. And when I arrived in Newcastle, I tossed the coals onto tracks and thereby, had "carried coals to Newcastle."

Returning Home:

At the end of time, at the of 1946, I was back in Regensburg Germany through the remainder of the winter. At around beginning of March I was on a troop train to Le Havre, and then aboard a troop ship to Camp Kilmer in New Jersey, I was discharged and home at last on around the 25th of March 1946.

GMS: Where did you grow up and go to school?

Franklin Kameny: I'm originally from Richmond Hill, Queens, in New York City. I went to Queens College as undergraduate. After the war I went back to school in 1946, graduated in 1948, and went to Harvard for graduate work.

GMS: Had you been aware of the Holocaust, --the Nazi torture and murder of Jews, Homosexuals, Roma Gypsies and others, during the war?

Franklin Kameny: In Duderstadt at wars end, we moved in when Hitler committed suicide, camps were being liberated, everywhere you went you saw refugees from the camps in striped gray and black uniforms; we did not yet know at the time of the concentration camps. I wrote to my mother that they cleaned out our garbage pails due to starvation. Nothing was organized, yet, to care for all the liberated people from those camps. At that time, certainly through May of 45, we did not yet know the story of Holocaust, nor what they found --the bodies pilled like cord wood nor of the starvation, forced labor and incineration of victims.

GMS: Can you describe having been in combat?

Franklin Kameny: I'm lucky to be alive. We learned to distinguish the sound of incoming artillery shells that might hit you. They were faster than speed of sound. The whistling would stop if they were very close; if it continued, then it was distance away. A lot landed very close. We were 81mm mortar crewmen. The mortar was small scale artillery; and so we were a bit back from the front, a tiny bit. We were in half-tracks open at top, with the mortar in the rear, It could be fired from the vehicle or ground based. There were instances where I took prisoners and had face to face encounters fighting with Nazis. On May 1st in Hartz, during Walprurgisnacht, we were being fired on from the mountains. Then we headed east out of Roer through Braunschweig, further east to Duderstadt.

GMS: Did you know you were gay when you entered the service?

Franklin Kameny: Keep in mind it was different cultural situation. In those days I did not know the word 'gay.' For a decade after the war, I was aware of tendencies; but I bought into theory of the day that it was a phase; I believed that. I was not really aware; there were incidents in Germany, in the Army with fellows who knew more, where I missed passes. I knew since my mid teens what turned me on, fantasies; but, I thought of it as a phase that all young men go through. It was, intellectually, a different era from today's self awareness.

GMS: How was it that you remained a PFC?

Franklin Kameny: Actually, when we got to that sodden filed in Louisiana, had I known more, I could have been at HQ. But I ended up in Headquarters Company, I was not very assertive. Given that we were at war, I had to be in the military; but, I did not have to become 'part' of it. Now, I would not have the same approach. I did not push for promotion. I'm not sure, in those days, that I would have been mature enough as an authority figure. I did not give orders well, I was not good at that. (editor: ah the humble hindsight of one of our greatest heroes!)

Medals:

I had asked Dr. Kameny to enumerate his medals from the war. Here, I saw his genuine humility. He is most proud of his simple, blue and silver, Combat Infantryman's Badge, which he wears on his suit on formal occasions. As for the rest of his military decorations, "I did not get wounded, although I came close. I have all those ribbons, a vast array that go on the uniform (see photo above left), I don't recall all of them, European Theater--things of that kind."

GMS: Were you asked if you were a homosexual when you joined the Army?

Franklin Kameny: When I enlisted I was asked if I had any homosexual tendencies; and everybody lied in those days. I had tendencies, and had more than just tendencies. But, I was not socially adept, in those days. I came out later, in the old sense of the word. While I was in the service there were a number of passes made at me that I did not recognize, which I regret now. I have resented for 63 years that I had to lie to get into the service.

In March of 2005, Dr. Kameny came to New York to testify to the New York City Council regarding a resolution urging the President and Congress to repeal the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy.  His most cantankerous remark, which brought down the house, was: Denying our military of the services of people who have much to offer, clearly gives aid and comfort to our enemies.  But under Section 3 of Article 3 of the constitution, giving aid and comfort to the enemy is one of the definitions of treason.  Therefore, anyone who supports the military gay ban whether by direct act or by mere word of mouth is constitutionally defined as a traitor and should be indicted, prosecuted, tried, convicted and hanged for treason.  I will gladly provide the cost of the hangman's rope out of my own pocket.